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  • I got blocked for that dumb poll, even though the cringey poll that inspired it survived. DeCool & Myself have wanted me gone for a long time from Sonic News Network. Every time I think I'm safe that things are starting to look up for me, someone always wants me dead. We're friends right? Is that because you can understand me? Or is it just because you're probably the nicest guy on SNN?

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    • Why can't it be both?

      I didn't know other admins were having it out for you. While I did thought your poll was peculiar, that's about it. I mean who doesn't want to go down the rabbit hole with Vanilla or dive into Rouge the Bat treasure trove?

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    • Well said Mystic, you're right about both reasons probably being the case. Yeah DeCool has wanted me gone for almost half a year now, & while he had the authority to banish me from his Discord server he needed more reason to block me from SNN, which the peculiar poll provided. The poll was meant to be harmless fun & it seems I was its true loser. There's irony in being blocked because you think differently on World Mental Health Day.

      My original plan was interestingly enough to use the SA2 Last Story icon for the Other Option's image because all options must have images or none can have them. I couldn't find it on the wiki, so I decided to just use Cream's image because of how she's 1 of the 4 main female Mobians in the series alongside Amy, Rouge, & Blaze. A few people misunderstood when they saw Cream's image unfortunately.

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    • I can sorta see why that would of been misinterpreted. You chose her to represent "other female characters" which gave the impression including the six yer old characters.

      Meanwhile nothing is said about 12 year old Amy Rose, 14 year old Blaze the Cat or long deceased Tikal.

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    • Well there is your theory of Mobians maturing faster than humans with Amy seeming like a girl in highschool, & Blaze having more maturity than many would have at 18 despite their ages. As well as that the minimum age on the wiki is 13, & it's normal for the younger members of the community to date girls that are 12 or 14, which is probably why there were no problems with their inclusion. I probably should have used a Custom Hero pic rather than Cream.

      Anyway you never fully get over being banned repeatedly just because you're hated & misunderstood. It was irony that I would get blocked for thinking differently on World Mental Health Day. The Sonic series over the past 18 years has caused me just as much pain as it has enjoyment looking back. Mystic would you have ever thought the series & its fanbase could end up how it is now from back at the turn of the millennium?

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    • Well Sonic's been around since 1991 and while I can say I have been around since the beginning, back then it wasn't until the turn of the century where the internet became more common in my life and I could be more involved with the fan community. So I do not know what the fandom was like in the 90s. And given the console wars was not as heated in my country (Mega drive was rather dominant in the UK) I never really found school social groups or local fan clubs of Sonic.

      But what I do know is that the bigger the community the more likely you'll get a few bad sorts in it. Such as vehement fans telling you why there-era of Sonic games is far better than your-era of Sonic games. Y'know, "Nostalgia fans".

      As a brony I also come to notice comparisons between Sonic and MLP:FiM fans, a statement I've been given groans over. Granted MLP:FiM only been around for 9 years but both sides consist of fan characters, artwork, smut and a passionate community where outsiders just think "What the hell? Why are these autistic manchildren like something as old and childish as My Little Pony/Sonic so much?" which of course leads to bad lighting and critism on both sides. And of course after awhile the whole "Love and Tolerance" thing Bronies preach about gradually became more of critisizing latest episodes or whatever.

      Anyway, point I am getting at with both Sonic and Ponies is that they both have big communities so just because two people can be passionate fans of the exact same thing doesn't mean they'll always get along.

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    • Personally I'm a fan of all eras of Sonic except the long lasting 2010s era. I don't see anything wrong with fancharacters, artwork that at times can be seen as porn, or having a passionate community personally. Most fanbases have those things from what I understand, although yeah outsiders just can't understand some series like Sonic. I personally blame the outsiders for why the series changed so drastically a decade ago in Sonic's case.

      MLP is currently marathoning its way to the series finale tomorrow, so I'm not sure how that will effect the MLP Community. The internet didn't really become mainstream until nearly 20 years ago. The 1st Console War I was a part of was 6th Gen & even then it wasn't that big of a deal compared to how people usually claim the 4th Gen Console War was. 5th Gen Console war took place mostly before I was even in school. From what I understand the console wars exhausted themselves more each generation to where 8th Gen wasn't worth debating.

      I didn't think there would be any conflict over eye coloration for Sonic until Sonic 4 came out in 2010. We all know that was nothing more than Sonic 1 HD Remixed with Homing Attack. I wasn't expecting such conflict in regards to the series among fans or that the series would constantly try to change itself so much back when I became a fan of the series. I never thought the different playstyles with different characters concept would be so hated online.

      We both formed different opinions as long term fans of the series when it came to Generations yet we can agree to disagree. I thought the just playing as 2 Sonics was silly & wasn't a fan of how cartoonish the game felt. I was under the impression that Sonic Team was trying to move the series forward & confused in those days 8 years ago by why they would make the game feel like a halfbaked nostalgia trip.

      It wasn't until more recently that I came to learn why Generations was the way it was. Sonic Team didn't know how to progress the series forward & didn't have the time or the resources to go all out with Sonic Generations. Part of me wonders what it would have been like if Sonic Generations happened without the 2010s direction change for the series & before Sonic Colors came out. I like to think that there would have been more story such as Sonic being upset that Eggman meddled with History to try to make it so that most of his friends never became his friends. We could have gotten Eggman Land for a Penultimate Stage with some new stage having to do with time & space distorted as the Final Stage.

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    • Well as someone who fantasize for working with Sonic Team there are things I woulda, coulda, shoulda with some games if I was ever some bigwig at Sega's table.

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    • I know what you mean Mystic & I kind of blame the 2nd half of what has been Sonic's 28 year existence for why the Sonic Fanbase is as divided & hating as it is. From what I understand usually differences (such as with opinion) are what lead to disputes & hatred. I've noticed that I don't even need to be unkind or rude to get unintentionally banned from my time on Discord & Wikia. I can understand the desire to have say & control over things.

      Whether it be control over a site like this, influence over decisions that go into making games, or some other things. If it were up to me the Just Sonic mentality never would have touched the main series & the decisions made for the games at the start of the 2010s decade never would have happened. It would be nice if Sonic's joke direction never happened & we got Sonic Rush 3 in 2010 for DS instead of Sonic 4 & Colors. With Sonic Storybook 3 (an oriental adventure probably) happening in 2011 or 2012 for Wii, while the 20th Anniversary game being much more grandiose than the Generations we got.

      Unleashed would have given Shadow a story fighting off the monsters & even showing Rouge working with GUN to stop their swarms at night. With the humans being consistent with how they were on Gen 6 consoles & all reacting to the cataclism even if that's by denying it as nothing more than an Earthquake with Monster Attacks. I would have also attempted to add more realism to the shattered world crisis & attempted to maintain the Dreamcast Era connections such as having the President of the United Federation appear.

      Colors would have been in 2013 & completely different mixing a silly surface tone with a much darker tone as you unravel the plot of Eggman's Amusement Park. His plan would have been a callback to the Eggmoon Saga & even had the events of that Sonic X storyark be mentioned confirming it as canon. Wisps power the mind control that Eggman will use to enslave the people of Earth & have it be confirmed that Eggman's process of using the wisps is life threatening for them. Eggman would even comment that Sonic is to blame for his hurting the wisps under the reasoning he's only resorted to this because Sonic foiled his schemes in Unleashed & Generations. Tails would have been playable as well with both of them being able to find different wisps. Green Hover, Crimson Eagle, & Purple Frenzy Wisps would be Sonic Exclusive, while Pink Spike, Magenta Music, & Violet Void would be Tails exclusives. The bosses would be a lot more epic as well.

      I would have seen to a collection of Sonic Pocket Adventure & The Advance Trilogy on 3DS with Sonic Battle included happening in 2012. We could have gotten Storybook 4 on Wii U in 2014 instead of Rise of Lyric. As well as a much better game for Forces. I would have tried to get Chao Gardens to return as much as I could. I would have made Sonic Runners Downloadable for 3DS & Speed Battle for Switch. I already told you about Team Sonic Racing I think with the having more teams some of which would be DLC.

      If I could go further back in time with that kind of control I would have suggested Sonic 06 be released on GameCube using 2 discs as Sonic Adventure 3 with it having Chao Gardens that could connect to GBA Chao Gardens & access the Chao Saves for Sonic Adventure DX & SA2 Battle allowing them to trade Chao much like can be done between Memory Cards. Then given Sony & Microsoft assurances that they would get enhanced ports of the Sonic Adventure games on their next Gen Consoles that would release in 2007 & 2008. With luck Secret Rings would still release on Wii by November 2007 & the Olympic Crossovers along with Black Knight would have still happened when they did along with Rush Adventure & the Rivals games.

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    • I would of simply give Sonic '06 more development time. That and replace Tails DUmmy Ring attack. 'cus that was annoying.

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    • That's all you're going to respond to? What about what I said for the Storybook games or the idea of making Colors come after Generations & actually have a serious story underneath the surface that makes itself known? Or the changes I suggested for Unleashed?

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    • Honetly I just woken up at the time and mostly skimmed it. You do have good ideas though it's just not much we the fans can do about it. Unless we become more whiney and obnoxious than the ones Sega would obligate to.

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    • There is a better way than whining Mystic it's called being a shareholder & is really only something the rich can do. Since Timetravel is necessary regardless at this point to make any change to what's already been done, perhaps we could abuse Timetravel to get the money needed to buy Sega Shares when the company was at it's lowpoint in the 2000s right before merging with Sammy then let history play out a bit before walking in & using our shareholder rights.

      Of course there's no way we can actually do that, although it's a fun what if to imagine. It would be nice if I could use Timetravel to stop myself from making that dumb poll the other day. Timetravel is very complicated & there's the chance I could end up making an even worse mess of things through trying to rewrite that which has already transpired even if I was capable of it through stealing a time machine. https://sonic.fandom.com/d/p/3100000000000005351 if this poll never existed I wouldn't have made the poll that got me blocked. I personally think Myself & DeCool only took the actions they did because they wanted an excuse to get rid of me. That would explain why the poll I made was locked & that wasn't.

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    • Well contrary to popular beliefs, we brits don't keep TARDISes or HG Wells time machines in our basement.

      As for your block I checked your page and it says that the reason you were blocked is not because of the poll but "Was blocked on Discord for inappropriate behaviour. This extends to the wiki as well.".

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    • I was fully aware that normal British Citizens don't have those, only HG Wells who took his to an unknown point in the future, however he had to make it himself & had the resources for it. As for Tardises they are the property of Gallifrey & you have to get lucky to find them, fortunately The Doctor's Type 40 is quite easy to recognize meaning you just have to enter the right Blue Box & convince The Doctor to help you, however rarely stays in the same spot long. You're more likely to get attacked by a weeping angel unfortunately.

      As for that reason, keep in mind the block from Discord happened months ago & I was on the wiki all that time. With the extention to the wiki only happening the other day, you can tell it was in response to the poll I made. What happened on Discord (which I question the legitimacy of) is the reason why DeCool wanted me gone & the poll was the perfect opportunity to get rid of me. Part of me thinks you should be careful as well around your fellow admins.

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    • I used to think that but not really anymore. If they wanted me off they would have ages a go.

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    • DeCool told me that the reason I was banned from the Discord Server was because he considered me dangerous. He never explained how I was dangerous though, although it likely was because of some of the philosophical questions I was asking in his server that he came to his conclusion. I've always taken bans & blocks hard, & even harder when they are personal, which is what I believe happened the other day.

      Did I ever tell you about how I got banned from Galaxy Trail's server on Discord? Roleplaying is against the rules there, yet 1 of the moderators roleplayed with almost every message. I was permanently banned a year ago under the pretext of roleplay when I was telling a joke. "Maybe you should tell Lilac that Windows 10 is hurting Milla" in response to someone complaining about Windows 10. I'm just the type of person people naturally hate online.

      After my experiences I can't say I actually value my own existence all that much. I work part/time, I get home where I sleep or watch TV while subjecting myself to abuse online, & play games a bit. That seems to be the story of my life & I'm curious do you think being a Sonic Fan causes you any pain or suffering Mystic? I seem to be prone to getting banned & I actually want to be part of a community & discuss Sonic stuff like this. https://sonic.fandom.com/f/p/3100000000000005371

      The internet can be a very cruel & unforgiving place, although I think we can be our truest selves on here. The people we choose to be, deep down in our souls is who we seem to be online. You're a wonderful person Mystic, maybe we can talk about MLP or Doctor Who sometime in addition to Sonic stuff? Maybe it's possible that we could friend eachother on Discord? Sorry it's taken me so long to respond.

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    • Being a Sonic fan never caused me any greif but as a gamer at times I do feel like the odd one out given most modern gamers don't regard Sonic the Hedgehog all that relevent. When I was 12 I played Sonic games. Now twelve year olds today play Fornite, Battlegrounds, Counterstrike, Halo, LoL while the only 90s ga,e franchise regarded still relevent today is Super Mario. I know it's 90s petty of me, to feel this way but I believe Sega are putting effort into making Sonic more relevent to todays crowed and meanwhile Fortnite has a giant purple cube roll around a map and people go nuts over it and make hundreds of videos over it. Especially Nintendo. If you click on "FANDOM" in the top-left corner then click "View All" under trending you'll find topics for Nintendo, Pokémon, Super Mario and Zelda as well as topics for a few other games but none for Sega or Sonic. I think that's unfair, Why Nintendo gets four topics and Sega none?

      I guess it's because Sonic games arn't socially competitive enough? Neither is MArio or Zelda though. I dunno. I doubt Sonic will ever have an eSport tournament. Puyo-Puyo does but as far as I'm aware YouTube doesn't treat that as big news in comparison to other eSports like Fortnite, Hearthstones or whatever.

      As for how you're feeling about internet communities in general, why not take a break from the internet? You can still come on to check news, watch videos and all but if going on communities is giving you a sense of "I don't want to put up with this crap today" sort of feeling then simply give the internet a break. With Halloween approaching maybe there is something you can do with your friends or family? Have a universal classic monster movie night (or watch Halloween and horror movies you do want to watch) or if you have any little siblings or relatives, offer to take them trick or treating and go in a costume just for the heck of it. Some grown ups often take their children trick or treating in order to "supervise" and "chaperone" them for their protection but it can also be an excuse for grown ups to dress up in costume and go out for the night like they used to. Not saying give up internet entirely, just take a break from it long enough to detoxify yourself and appreciate those around you who appreciate you.

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    • I meant that I've always found Wikia & Discord as being an abusive cycle of making friends with some users, & getting treated badly or banned/blocked by others giving just as much pain as satisfaction. I'm living 3 completely different lives right now & I admit its hard but I don't want to kill 1 of my selves even if only temporarily. There's my Professional Self which I am whenever I go to work, my Normal Self which I am when I'm around other people offline & not working, & my Online self where I can feel free.

      My other 2 selves aren't allowed certain things like the ability to like certain things. Usually people refer to those things as guilty pleasures. To give up my online self entirely, I would be losing 90% of the friends I have & would regret it. I would be alone, unable to trust anyone, & full of rage & despair if I completely left. Every time I'm banned or blocked that's why I take it so personally, it's hard to put a comparison for it into words, although each ban is a time I get stabbed. I admit my Normal Self does take over for my Online self often, although I really don't want to start metaphoricly slashing away at myself & leave that part of me dead.

      I've lost too many friends to put my remaining friends through the pain of losing me. I believe real life is just as toxic as the internet at times. I used to have a friend on Sonic Fanon Wiki named Sapphire Flower who changed her name to Chica Nunnaly & I still haven't gotten over her mysteriously vanishing without any explanation. I'm already starting to feel as though I may have ended up doing that as well & I hate that feeling.

      DeCool didn't exactly warn me before he banned me both on his server & on SNN. Although you're right I was making too many comments & polls on SNN, & if I get unbanned from there which is very unlikely I'll have to make much stricter limits on how much I interact there. I have been watching a lot of TV like you said though. I guess when I said abuse online, it's because I think that there shouldn't be much toxicity on the internet.

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    • Well, I still think it be best if you take time out for yoour "normal self" and "online self" to get one another sorted out given how difficult it all sounds for you. You should be here because you want to and to enjoy your time here.

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    • I had come to want to be there in the past couple weeks thanks to the newer users & new ideas on the site. The Toxicity is the random crap that comes with being there like certain admins despising me or the occasional Trolling encountered. I'm tired of being banned for reasons that don't make sense. It's happened on at least 5 different Discord Servers for me since I joined that chatroom site. Then there's what DeCool did the other day.

      From what I understand most Fans tend to feel betrayed or let down by Sega. I mean you had the several year wait for PSO2 to actually get an English Console release. The priority of cashgrabby phone games over actual solid games which to be fair was Sammy's doing. Then there's the constant disappointments with the Sonic series that fans tend to have & the complete abandonment of some series like Nights, Burning Rangers, & more. It's hard being a Sega Fan, although the music tends to be awesome.

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    • In Sammy's defence, The Sega Saturn does have a great library of games however Sega marketed their games that were imported from the Arcade. Even Sega's most popular arcade franchises such as Virtua Cop, Virtua Fighter or The House of the Dead consist of you feeding money or tokens into the machine in order to continue playing. Importing of Arcade games continued over to the Dreamcast and ironically these Arcade games still have a ground following to this day. So Sammy who originally made Arcade games moving onto phone games is a rather logical step.

      Phone games are just more elaborate arcade games you can carry in your pocket. The only difference is micropaying to buy in-game tokens instead of buying tokens at arcade.

      (The South Park episode "Freemium Isn't Free" better explains it than I can.)

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    • Part of what led to Sega needing Sammy to bail them out of financial problems to begin with was the decline of Arcades. If you think about it almost all of the arcades that are still in business are more than just arcades. Whether they double as restaurants/bars like say Dave & Busters or they offer other forms of entertainment like skating rinks or Laser Tag in addition to the Arcade. Most just prefer to own the games than pay to play them at an arcade.

      There were popular Saturn & Dreamcast games that weren't arcade games notably Nights, & all 3 Sonic games on the Dreamcast. The Monkey Ball Arcade game saw very little success compared to the vastly superior home console releases. Sega had the ability to make excellent 3D Sonic games within 2 1/2 years of eachother 2 decades ago.

      I remember there being a poll asking about whether Tangle & Whisper should appear in the games. I would be all for them being playable with Jewel the Beetle being their teammate if Team Sonic Racing gets a 2nd game or DLC. I probably would have commented on a couple of discussions if DeCool didn't silence me.

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    • In my country, or at least the parts of the country I been to, whenever I go to an arcade the first thing I see is gambling machines. Mostly slot machines and if theres room those penny-pushing games. Other than gambling machines you may find some digital carnival-like games.

      And way at the back, tuck out of sight, you might find at least 2-5 genuine arcade machines from ten years a go.

      I always wanted to g to a genuine American arcade. The arcades here feel like a cheap alternative to a casino.

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    • Mystic it would be nice if we could talk on Discord, as that would offer a good place to discuss stuff that doesn't relate to the Sonic Series. It would be great to talk about Doctor Who or the MLP Finale on there sometime. It's been about a week since I made that poll which sealed my fate on Sonic News Network. I even took your advice & spent more time offline the past few days.

      Arcades can be weird with their game choices I guess. Also you would think that more Arcades would offer Pass cards that let you play all the games you want within certain conditions such as continue limitations or daily time-limits over the course of a week or a month. It's interesting that arcades would feel like a poorman's casino in your country yet supposedly games that feature gambling aren't considered ok for kids there from what I've heard.

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    • I don't really have Discord. I'm just not that modern of a person to bother with Discord, Twitter and what-not.

      Heres a rough picture on what most arcades I've been to look like.
      https://marineholidaypark.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Arcade-at-Marine-Holiday-Park.jpg
      To me they feel like places that prioritize the spending and wasting of money over just spending money for a bit of fun. That's why the common attractions in arcades are gambling machines, penny dropping games and claw machines that only starts to grab after it rise. And yeah it's illegal to allow minors to gamble which is why they have a few old arcade games for kids to do way at the back so that the grown-ups can gamble and play.

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    • Ironically the only 2 games that can easily be recognized in that image are that Rock & Roll coin dropping game & F-Zero GX. The latter of which is a legitimate arcade game. Also I've seen similar coin dropping games in some kids arcades. Usually actual arcade games are back facing either a wall or another arcade game.

      I know how you feel, the only reason I'm on Discord is because most Wikis replaced their chatrooms with it. I have a Youtube account, although it's only to comment on videos. I was actually using a VCR in 2017, unfortunately it stopped working at the end of that year. I suggested Discord because it would probably be easier to talk about Doctor Who & MLP on there than on here as parts of messages on a Sonic Fancreation Wiki.

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    • I prefer message boarfds. Able to take my time in responses.

      And arn't those penny dropper games technically gambling machines? Even if it's just pennies, you're risking money for more or less money. That's gambling.

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    • Being able to take your time to respond is something that can be done on small relatively lifeless servers on Discord as well as the Private Messages. To be fair, arcades that award tickets for prizes can be considered gambling, Japan does this too in the form of Pachinko Parlors.

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    • I can forgive Japan's Panchinko Parlors for Japan also still has traditional arcade. I like to believe American also has traditional arcades.

      If UK has any traditional arcades I've yet to been to one. Only the Amusement Arcades I talked about. I haven't played The House of the Dead or Virtua Cop on an actual arcade machine in years.

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    • Out of curiosity how did you play Sonic after Sega left the console wars? Most of my experience with the Sonic Series was done through Nintendo Systems. I like to think that the Nintendo player view on Sonic as being this action packed series starring a Blue Hedgehog who can run fast & his Anthro friends. All those games on GameCube & GBA that Sonic had defined just who he was to Nintendo players starting with Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Sonic Advance, & Mega Collection.

      Sonic's personality was completely different back then from how it is now. I haven't played House of the Dead or Virtua Cop on actual arcade machines ever. Some of the arcade machines I'm familiar with are Ski Ball, a game where you wack colored sharks with a mallet, some anime rhythm game I can't remember that well, & Mario Kart.

      I'm curious as to your thoughts on Doctor Who such as favorite Doctors & companions. I kind of have a preference for Classic Doctor Who with a lot of my favorite episodes being in the 3rd, 4th, & 5th Doctor Eras. I think my favorite Modern Doctor would have to be 11th Matt Smith. Clara Oswald is probably my favorite of the Modern Companions, although I do like some of the Classic companions just as much if not more like K-9, Sarah Jane Smith, Leela, Romana, Adric, & Nyssa.

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    • As a Sonic fan it was a bit jarring. The fact Sega will no longer be making consoles anymore was dissapointing as it was the end of a legacy of machines. And when a better version of Sonic Adventure ended up on the GameCube a part of me couldn't help but feel that Nintendo made Sega their bitch. Even seeing that picture of Sonic holding that GameCube and GameBoy Advance with a smile made me feel he was unconcenual at the time. But despite my pride I can't help but confess the Nintendo 64 had some good games such as GoldenEye and Zelda: Ocarina of TIme and owning a GameCube and a GameBoy Advance allowed me to not only play Sonic games for GameCube but also Zelda and other games I liked. I recall having a GameBoy, while I do like the GameCube better the GameBoy had more of a library.

      And just to clarify, these consoles I had were not "mine". I had three brothers and a single mother so when she brought us games and consoles they were for all of us to share.

      But given Sega no longer made games for a specific console means that they can distribute their games for a variety of platforms alowing them to be more available to it's audience, for example I chose the XBox 360 version of Sonic Unleashed over the Wii version because it looked better to me. And I still don't have a Switch or a PS4 but thanks to Steam I have Sonic Mania and Forces on my PC. I think business-wise, Sega quitting the console business was a good decision and alows Sega to still keep afloat to this day because of it. But still I often wonder what it be like if we lived in a timeline if Sega won the Console War, or if they contonues to make consoles for the sake of it? I'd be curious to know what would their next console be after the Dreamcast.

      As for Doctor Who, my favourite doctor is David Tennant. Got a cardboard stand of him. The classic series ended just a year after my birth so I have no nostalgic memories of the original series but I was still a fan of the concept. However ever since Jodie Whittaker became the Doctor and the BBC going all "politically correct", a lot of Whovians had had enough of the series since Series 11.

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    • I started with the Modern Doctor Who back in late 2011/early 2012, then after the 50th anniversary I went & started watching the Classic stuff & just grew to like it more. I was really confused when I learned that Sarah Jane Smith was never actually a companion at the same time as K-9 despite the Modern stuff having her return with K-9 & I learned why eventually. Through a channel called Retro I watched the majority of the Classic series a few times. Although I think in early 2018 I stopped getting Retro entirely where I live.

      As for Sega winning the console wars, that was never going to happen because of Sony combined with Sega's extremely divided management. Sega was always a worse enemy for itself than Nintendo was, Sony though was the force with the goal of annihilating both Nintendo & Sega. It makes sense how Nintendo was able to stay alive against Sony, while Sega's infighting was part of what led to their downfall. Also there was this Sony Agent named Stolar who did everything he could to ensure Saturn's failure in the West when he was a higher up in Sega of America.

      In a way 1 could view Sonic & Knuckles as representative of the relation between Sega & Nintendo. Knuckles was the same color as Sonic's biggest rival in the gaming industry, & they started out fighting & eventually came to respect eachother. By the time of the Dreamcast Era, Sega & Nintendo both saw Sony as their main enemy. Sony would dominate the gaming industry for most of the Generations it was part of, PS1, PS2 by a landslide, & PS4 (although Gen 8 was 1 of the worst Gens for gaming) still Nintendo had Handheld dominence. Although it makes sense, as Nintendo invented handheld gaming almost 40 years ago with the Game & Watch series.

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    • Yeah as much a sI like Sonic, even today Sega's marketing is kinda... stupid.

      Don't get me wrong they do have really good franchises other than Sonic such as Yakuza, Football Manager and Total War the thing is these franchises are mostly published by sega than developed by them as well as being "modern franchises".

      As for Classic-era franchises well there is Sega Ages but other than that they're not daring or motivated enough to reboot their old franchises for the Modern-era. I think it's because they fear another Golden Axe: Beast Rider but at a cost those franchises will never be given a chance for the modern audience. Imagine what games like Alex Kidd, Fantasy Zone or Ristar would be like as brand new modern games!

      Meanwhile Nintendo keeps their franchises like Zelda, Pokémon, Starfox, Donkey Kong and other classic-era franchises fresh for the modern era of gaming while Sega's classic characters only come out whenever their is a Sega All-Star game.

      But at least games like Panzer Dragoon is getting a remake and Phantasy Star Online 2 is finally arriving for western marketing.

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    • Sega doesn't even know how to do Sonic properly anymore, unless that's Sonic Team. Nintendo always valued their series like Mario, Donkey Kong, & LoZ, which led to their success. Pokemon was once being groomed to their #2 series, then GameFreak went & screwed up in recent years. Nintendo gives their developers a lot of freedom these days & that ruined Pokemon, although Kirby's thriving on the freedom.

      Sega on the otherhand, like you said chose not to invest in several of their series & even makes questionable choices when marketing Sonic. Burning Rangers & Nights could have used more games or rereleases for that matter. Sega's at least giving attention to Yakuza, Puyopuyo, & Project Diva these days. As well as the remake for Panzer Dragoon & Long awaited Western Release of PSO2.

      Phantasy Star was always 1 of Sega's better series & managed to earn a cult following. It's Dreamcast Reinvention was incredible as well & it's shocking we had to wait 5 full years for the sequel. Super Monkey Ball was originally going to be released for the Dreamcast, although it was changed to GameCube with the 3rd Party Developer direction.

      When I think of Sega, series that immediately come to mind include Sonic, Nights, Project Diva, Super Monkey Ball, Puyopuyo, Phantasy Star, Panzer Dragoon, Burning Rangers, Alex Kidd, Shinobi, & the Virtua Series. Nintendo has just as many famous series with Fire Emblem going from Japan Exclusive to within Nintendo's Top5 series worldwide after Melee. Super Smash Bros games would serve as an excellent proving ground for Nintendo's All Stars after that with Brawl showing Pit for Kid Icarus Uprising.

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    • If I worked with Sega in the 90s afrter Sonic 1 I'd ve like "Hey, it's great we have Sonic now to compete with Mario but Zelda is just as much as a competitor. Wouldn't Alex Kidd and his miraculous world be ideal to compete against Zelda?"

      Granted Alex Kidd games are side-scrollers but so was Zelda II. If I rebooted Alex Kidd I'd make it like Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword. (Being too open-world like Breath of the WIld may have it's drawbacks).

      In fact, because I can't just "make games", I make .rtf docs on ideas for Alex Kidd, Golden Axe and House of the Dead reboots. And of course Sonic fan game ideas.

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    • Sonic vs Mario, Alex Kidd vs Legend of Zelda, Phantasy Star vs Fire Emblem, Panzer Dragoon vs Star Fox, that still leaves some series unaccounted for. What would you have proposed as the rival for Kirby or Pokemon? Burning Rangers could have maybe rivaled Metroid. Fighting Vipers engine could have made for a fun rival to Super Smash Bros if Sonic the Fighters is anything to go by, although it would need to allow for twice as many characters.

      I personally think a Dreamcast "Smash Bros" rival would have had Sonic, Tails, Amy, Knuckles, Alex Kidd, Nights, & a few Fighting Game characters along with representation for Shinobi, Burning Rangers, Panzer Dragoon, & Phantasy Star series. Probably a total of more than 20 Characters including the unlockables. Also don't worry I kind of do the same thing Mystic with ideas for games.

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    • Ristar could rival with Kirby. Both heroes have round, cartoon bodies, travel to colourful planets and meet creative enemies.
      Though Kirby's ability to gobble enemies, change apperance and takeon their abilities is quite a creative novelty than "stretching arms" can't really cover.

      As for Pokémon, I don't think anything can top that. Even Digimon is regarded a knock-off of Pokémon and Digimon is older than Pokémon. While Sega does have franchises like Mushiking and Dinosaur King, these franchises are more based on insects and dinosaurs which is more for aquired taste of entomology and palentology. When I was a kid I thought dinosaurs were cool and fascinating but the idea of a dinosaur shooting lightning just sounds silly to me.

      I think the perfect rival to the Metroid series coulda, shoulda would of been Zillion, a game about a space hero landing on an alien planet to explore it's cavern and underground.

      As for Smash Bros, I really don't think sega should attempt to knock-off Super Smash Bros at all, it would look both pathetic trying to rip off one of Nintendos most top game series as well as poor sport on account Sonic is already in the Super Smash Bros series.
      Instead I think they should make a direct sequal to Fighters Megamix, a game that predates the first Super Smash Bros. game and is a Sega crossover fighting game. So Sega can hold bragging rights on who made a crossover fighting game first, but those rights will probably be revoked for never continuing the series, another drawback for Sega not bothering to use their old IPs.

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    • I was talking about possibilities in the 90s not today. Actually Pokemon came out a year before Digimon in Japan, & Digimon is generally viewed as the better series these days. The actual overarching plots, & much higher stakes are why Digimon was able to thrive to begin with. I mean the 1st major antagonist of the series was Devimon & it took a lot to defeat him with Angemon (same Champion level) sacrificing himself for the power to win.

      Pokemon Anime was just an endless journey type series much like One Piece although without storyarcs that actually had stakes to them. Even the Digimon games themselves were much different from Pokemon games. It's ironic that Pokemon is starting to suffer from the same problems as the Sonic Series these days. GameFreak had a harder time converting the series to 3D than Sonic Team did with Sonic. Then there are the problems of it feeling like the developers just don't care as much about the series these days as they once did in both Sonic & Pokemon games. Because of how Nintendo is about hiring fans, it's unlikely Pokemon will get its Sonic Mania.

      I agree its unfortunate that Sega never uses half of their old IPs. Nights probably had better chances of forming a rivalry with Kirby than Ristar. I mean both Kirby & Nights fight Nightmare like monsters & are capable of floating/flight. Wizeman vs Nightmare deathbattle would be interesting to see someday.

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    • Digimon

      I miss classic Digimon. I used to have an OC (uncreatively, it was a version of me, name and all) and a fanmade Digimon partner named NRGmon (pronounced en-er-gy-mon), they were exclusively an Adventure-02 era OC with fleshed out backgrounds. but I did enjoy Digimon Tri.

      ??? vs Pokémon

      I don't really think there is anything wrong with the Pokémon series at the moment. To me the Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee trailers just shows off how far they come and how successful they are. Everytime I watch that trailer I feel sentimental given while I am not a pokémon fanatic I too grew up with Pokémon, especially yellow. And feel sentimental about the commercial and wish Sega could achieve something like this, but know very well they can't.

      If only chao were revised and had a spin-off. Given the metamorphic nature of chao a "raise your own monster" game to counter a "capture your own monster" game might have worked.

      Ristar vs Kirby

      On the subject of NiGHTS there is actually a good reason why there has only been two NiGHTS game and why I respect if Sega chooses to retire the NiGHTS series. Before Journey to Dreams, Yuji Naka had no intentions to make a sequal because he thought the game was too perfect as it is to have a sequal that could tarnish the reputation of the first. It's compared to how Steven Spielberg regards E.T. Both regard their creations as works of art and don't want sequals to bog them down. So I respect that NiGHTS just isn't a game to have one sequal after another. Even Shigeru Miyamoto himself that acknowledge was a great game and this was during the 90s mind.

      Therefore I think Ristar would still be an ideal combatant against Kirby on account both have similar themes even if their gameplay is different.

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    • Nintendo & Sega actually had quite a bit of respect for eachother during the Gen 5 Console Era. Yuji Naka also had respect for Miyamoto's work & it's funny you mentioned Spielberg, as he was a huge fan of Nights. I remember reading that Yuji Naka had intentions to release a 2nd Nights game in the 90s after he was sure it was every bit as good as the original Nights into Dreams. Supposedly Christmas Nights was all that came of that cancelled Nights game.

      Ristar was also a single game series, much like Nights was before the Wii Sequel. I imagine that the Nights series would have been a passion filled side project that would go years between releases. I'm starting to understand your viewpoint of Ristar vs Kirby.

      Pokemon series was having a huge backlash a couple months ago when it was revealed that half the Pokemon weren't going to be coded into the upcoming game pair. Pokemon's fanbase is just as divided as the Sonic fanbase these days & many are saying that GameFreak started getting lazy after the switch to 3D. I'm willing to cut XY slack for being GameFreak's 1st attempt at 3D, however that doesn't excuse the problems with later games. ORAS intentionally left out Trainer Customization & Battle Frontier. Let's go had the severe overfocus on Kanto (not even the Gen2 evolutions of Gen1 Pokemon were available in game) & very little in terms of post game offered. Gen7 overall is often thought of as too handholdy.

      As for Digimon, Adventure Tri was great & I kind of want other nostalgia series like it. In a way its kind of like the Sonic Adventure 3 for Digimon. What is it you miss most about Classic Digimon? The fact that it wasn't afraid to get dark yet still market itself for kids? Also by Classic Digimon does that include Tamers & Frontier? Kids were treated much more maturely 20 years ago than they are these days.

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    • I still hope Sega will get their second wind someday, they really gotta get out of their mind set that just because they only make video games now doesn't make them any less as a major video game corporation. They still show promise with Sonic Mania, Yakuza, Puyo-Puyo, Monkey Ball and a few other games and I believe PSO2 will help garner the funding and attention they need (even though western fans have been playing a cracked, translated version for years) and while I dunno if Shenmue III still counts as a Sega game, people still regard Ryo Hazuki a Sega All-Star so... nostalgia I guess?

      One thing I always wonder about in-game Pokémon lore was that, back then in Gen 1 era, were the people of Kanto region were fully aware of other regions and their pokémon? After all Johto neigboured Kanto and completing the Johto League allowed you to visit the Kanto Region with both old and new pokémon to collect. Or when you played a brand new Pokémon game, the new pokémon are regarded "recently discovered" even if the region lore state they're native and common pokémon?

      Also, given some evolutions were added in later games, such as new first and third-state evolutions, it makes me wonder how Kanto pokémon breeders did not know the existance of Pichu and other baby pokémon all this time.

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    • Well Generation 2 was originally supposed to be the end for Pokemon games, because GameFreak didn't think the series would be successful enough to continue. However Nintendo refused to allow the series to end there & did everything they could to groom Pokemon into their #2 series during the 2000s. The games for Gens 1&2 take place in a universe where less than 300 species of Pokemon exist. The Kanto Dex were the most well known, with most of the Johto Dex being secret & recently discovered species.

      There was a huge deal made about the discovery of the Steel Type in Gen 2 with Steelix being said to only naturally live so far beneath the Earth's surface it was the stuff of myth. The Baby Pokemon were unknown as well until researchers in Johto discovered them by watching Pokemon Eggs hatch. Porygon 2 was literally the invention of Silph Co. while the Legendary Beasts, Ho-oh, Lugia, & Celebi were thought to not actually exist. Supposedly Raikou, Entei, & Suicune were reborn from 3 Pokemon that died in a fire about 50 years before the game.

      Gen 3 started a 2nd Timeline with FRLG & RSE aknowledging that these Pokemon species are believed to only exist within certain regions naturally. The Anime tries to consider the claims of only 150 Pokemon existing as "Early Installment Weirdness", while the manga just revealed that there are more species to discover at the end of Johto.

      Super Monkey Ball hasn't had an actual new game in about 7 years. Banana Blitz is getting an HD Port later this year, however the last new game was Banana Splitz for PS Vita. Many believe there was a quality drop in 2006 for Super Monkey Ball games, which remained until the series was abandoned in 2012. Some fans blame the Yakuza series for why Super Monkey Ball 3 never happened on GameCube back in 2004 & the lower quality games that would feel gimmicky that came later.

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    • To be fair theres not much for Super Monkey Ball to make a story around. It's a monkey in a ball and you collect bananas before reaching the goal. That's about it for all the stages. Other than the skyboxes the stages are rather bland consisting of mostly flat islands to roll around on.

      It's the same for the Puyo Puyo series. What they did was get the game Monogatari Madō Monogatari 1-2-3 which starred the puyo as slime elementals you encounter in fights and they just made the Puyo Puyo series expanded the lore and continue the stories of it so that the same puzzle-stacking game can be used again in almost every installment with just a new story added to it from Monogatari Madō Monogatari. I mean maybe theres some new gameplay feature in between other than "Now with Tetris", will admit Puyo Puyo Chronicles gives a somewhat creative use of the gameplay.

      I guess that's why Super Monkey Ball and Puyo Puyo are the only classic-era franchises other than Sonic to still be continued because they're bland and safe. Heck if Sonic Team recycled content from Sonic Generations to use in Sonic Forces, this would of prooved the point even more.

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    • Super Monkey Ball isn't really a Classic Franchise & it's not exactly safe. From what I understand Banana Splitz for PS Vita was so poorly recieved that Sega gave up on the series until this year for an HD port of Banana Blitz. True Super Monkey Ball doesn't really need much in terms of story, however that didn't stop Super Monkey Ball Adventure from having a focus on story. Banana Blitz drastically changed the series by Redesigning the characters, adding the ability to jump, & having enemies actually appear in the puzzles with boss fights being a thing.

      Super Monkey Ball ironically has fans making more faithful & creative puzzles by means of Super Monkey Ball 2 based fangames. When I think of Classic Sega franchises I tend to think of the stuff for Master System/Gamegear, MegaDrive & it's addons, along with Saturn for the most part. Super Monkey Ball series is notable for being the 1st Sega IP to make its home console debut on a system that wasn't made by Sega.

      I agree that the Puyopuyo series is safe with the stories & occasional gimmick being selling points. Project Diva series is also safe simply because it's a Vocaloid Rhythm game even though its a more modern Sega Series. Those 2 series are almost impossible for Sega to screw up with. I agree that Sega should be trying to make more games of higher quality since they are a 3rd Party developer these days. We can only hope that Sega manages to get good again over the next few years.

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    • Ooooh! Imagine a Super Monkey Ball game... but with stages like M.C.Escher paintings, such as Relativity! Or with seamless portals! But as you said Sega had the one bad game and decided to shut it down until Banana Blitz HD.

      As for Classic-era franchises, the only ones I can think of are Fantasy Zone, Alex Kidd, Ristar, Classic Phantasy Star, Shinobi, Golden Axe, Ecco and that's about it. Some of these games had remasters and remakes by Sega Ages but they wern't regarded as major independant releases. Honestly wish Sega can get Matrix Software to remake the classic Phantasy Star games. They're the ones who made the NDS Final Fantasy remakes.

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    • Ok I think I realized the need for a term to describe the daughter version of a Waifu for future reference. What term do you think sounds better to describe female characters like Cream that you want as a daughter? Dateru, Daughterfu, or Dauterifu?

      Regardless I'm tired of being hated & banned for being awkward! I'm also tired of my back pain & other problems. Mystic it feels weird trying to go back & edit the stuff I made with Chica Nunnally after she vanished from existence completely. I tried to collab some with Julia after she left, although that didn't go very far. I don't think I can possibly gain any new friends here because of how I am & the fact that I'm banned from this wiki's discord as well.

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    • Waifu and husbando are the engrish words for Husband and Wife so I pressume the engrish word for daughter is what you're after.

      "Daughteru"

      As for Chica Nunnally and Julia,  Ido not know who they are.

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    • I was just saying users I collaberated some with on this wiki. They were among the few people who actually accepted me on this wiki. I have had some thoughts of possibly pulling a Freedom Planet with the stuff I made with https://sonicfanon.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:Chica_Nunnally however it's kind of a shared universe. Thanks for the input Mystic, I didn't think that silent gh translated into engrish.

      I've been thinking about editing a few of my characters on here & adding a couple of them as well. 1 of the characters I was planning to say was a "Daughteru" for me in the trivia section. I had plenty of unusual ideas here like creating an Alternate Timeline Earth with millions of Mobians in it. Or the idea of giving my main female protagonist a Super Luck power that generates a barrier that reduces the probability of most attacks touching her to almost zero. The latter idea was hated here because it was seen as being too powerful even though I gave it weaknesses.

      Sound, water, heat (not fire), wind/air, & telekinesis were all mostly immune to the effects of the barrier. Those with an understanding of how it worked could reach Yume with their attacks even through the barrier as well. Having Yume feel straight out of anime was also not that well received on here. I'm hoping things are different now on here in regards to opinion on these strange ideas. Still I kind of miss my friends who left.

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    • I've been thinking of updating my character picture of mystic Monkey. For years I've always been conflicted about the sword.

      The only reason I gave Mystic Monkey a sword to begin with is because Sonic had superspeed and sharp hedgehog spikes, Tails had his big tails that he can clobber with and Knuckles had big meaty fists. Despite their normal exterior almost all Sonic characters have some natural means of animal attributes to utilize as an attack.

      Monkeys are great climbers but that's about it, which is why I gave him the sword to make up for lack of spikes or meaty fists. But just because I like sword doesn't mean I always agreed with Mystic having one and it's perhaps a conflict of mine I've had since Dreamcast-era.

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    • You've had your character for a long time Mystic, my current characters haven't even been around for 4 years yet. It's hard to believe you had these doubts for 15-20 years about your own character without getting reassurance or changing anything. There's nothing wrong with having a sword though, Amy has her hammer afterall, & Sonic has used swords before. As well as that Silver has his psychic abilities, Blaze has her pyrokinesis, & Shadow is willing to use weapons in addition to Chaos Powers to accomplish things.

      Cream doesn't really use animal attributes to attack instead relying on her partnership with Cheese with her launching the chao at enemies, however she has used her hands to attack before. Cream is an interesting case in that she could be the most gifted fighter in the series, however tries to avoid fighting whenever possible. I think if Cream were playable in a modern fighting game, she would probably apologize when beating up opponents.

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    • I written out a big reply and the wiki gobbled it up or something. I'm sorry but can't be bothered writting it all out again.



      Mystic had changes, yadda-yadda, sword isn't the same as hammer due to hammerspace, and Sonic Team hates families between their characters which is why hardly much Cream.

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    • I hate it when Wikia does that, I have to suggest copying everything before you send the message, then control + v when trying the message again should it fail. It works wonders when Wikia chooses to gobble up your messages. I've had to repaste the same message 5 times on here before & I wouldn't have been able to do that without the trick I mentioned Mystic.

      I'm guessing your character's sword isn't magic, capable of being summoned to Mystic's Location at will? Does your sword have any special abilities? Or does Mystic have any abilities he can put into his sword? There are cases where a sword user can draw different types of energy into their blade like wind or electricity.

      Anyway I'm personally of the opinion that Sonic Team stopped caring about the series & its characters 10 years ago. Although that could have been Sega's doing, who made the hiring decisions for the changes made in 2010? I remember the days back when the series had excellent writers before Pontac & Graff took over. That reasoning for Cream not appearing in any significant console or 3DS game since Generations is dumb if you ask me.

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    • Mystic's sword is just a regular sword. To be more specific it's more similar to the clarent but more well kept. Other than that it's nothing special.

      Technically Mystic does keep it in "hammerspace" (or an invisibility scabbard) when it's not visable but despite it's loose logic that still doesn't make much sense to me.
      I did had an adventure in mind on Mystic going ending up in the World of Camelot and going on a Paladin quest to be trained under Caliburn but other than that not much of a direction.

      I don't think they stopped caring for Sonic given Sonic is sega's biggest money-maker. My concern is that Sega are trying to please too many people. People like nostalgia fans who want more familiar elements in the game even if it clashes with current elements, like bringing back Classic Sonic so often they splinter the timeline over it. But not only nostalgia fans but also make sure the games appeal to the younger audience without upsetting too many mothers, so Dr. Eggman being a somewhat silly villain is a more safer route instead of a terrorist who tried to blow up Station Square or once held a laser blaster to Amy's head.

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    • Still the decision to hire people known for writing some morbid animal cartoon, despite them having absolutely no knowledge of the Sonic Series was a stupid decision. Sega cared more about pleasing the critics (& Gen1ers) than actual fans who were loyal to the series. Of course the critics don't care about the series & suggest things to hurt Sonic's reputation because they see it as another silly cartoon animal series.

      Personally I think Eggman lost his edge as a villain after Adventure 2. Teaming up with the heroes to stop his grandfather softened him, which is probably why Metal Sonic held him prisoner. Sure he still wanted to take over the world & regained some of his villainous nature as a result of Sonic Heroes, although he wasn't as evil as he once was. Sonic Forces seemed like it was his big return to the terrorist he was in days of old.

      In a way Eggman is kind of similar to Fuhrer King Bradley from Full Metal Alchemist (mangahood) in that both have a silly side & an intimidating part of their personalities. I still think Vic Mignogna's Edward Elric voice would have fit Sonic way better than Roger's voice. Speaking of which it's really unfortunate what happened to Vic over the course of this year. Back to Eggman, I don't see anything wrong with him being intimidating at times.

      There remain plenty of intimidating villains in kids shows. Sure we can't have anyone as sinister as Myotismon these days, although MLP had Tirek & Chrysalis as intimidating villains. The Kirby series in the past 5 years has had an omnicidal supercomputer as a final boss. There's no reason games can't have serious villains & actual stakes & still be E or E10+. The real problem is simply that the Sonic games don't take themselves seriously at all in the 2010s.

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    • Kinda ironic that the writers who made such a gory show can't really write a Sonic game properly and make it more toned down than it was before..

      I think Dr. Eggman lost his edge when he became more reliant of giant monsters than his own machines after awhile.

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    • Sonic Adventure 2 was made to possibly be the last Sonic Game with it being a last hurrah for Sonic on Dreamcast. That's why the ending of the game was the way it was, Eggman seemed changed during the Last Scene when he was talking to Tails. Of course Sonic would prove immensely popular on GameCube with SA2 Battle serving as a new beginning for the series alongside it's prequel Sonic Advance. As well Eggman would like I said return to being a villain in games after Sonic Heroes, although he wouldn't be quite as evil as he was before the leap to 3rd Party consoles.

      Shadow's huge role in Sonic's GameCube debut, would require his return for Sonic Heroes. Nintendo Sonic fans would see the Adventure games as defining for the series in 3D. PS2 & Xbox players wouldn't receive a Sonic game until Heroes, 2 years after his Nintendo debut. All 3 of the NonSega Gen6 Consoles would get Mega Collection as the 2nd game, which would allow the Classic games to have the largest following in the series. PlayStation & Xbox faithfuls wouldn't experience the Adventure games until the HD Ports. You can see how there were different opinions for what the series is supposed to be forming at this point.

      You also have to remember that Happy Tree Friends was a comedy series despite how morbid it got. Pontac & Graff would change the series from a Shonen to a comedy series. I personally miss the anime feeling that Sonic once had with series like DBZ airing Stateside around the time the Adventure games arrived on Dreamcast. The Sonic series felt like those anime series that were airing around that time & it needs to return to that feeling in the main series if you ask me.

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    • I still think Dr. Eggman was pretty good in Sonic Adventure 2. For starters, he was a playable character which was a big first time thing. He pissed on blew up the moon and threatened to blow Amy's brains across the floor if Sonic didn't put down the emerald only to have Sonic ejected to space just to blow up in the cold vacuume of space.

      Yeah he lost control of his own scheme with the Eclipse Cannon in the end and had to get the heroes to help save the world because he only wanted to threaten the planet to conquer it, not make the planet inhospitable for conquest.

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    • Yeah Eggman was a great villain in Sonic Adventure 2, I was just saying that he changed after that game. Maybe it's simply that he's come to respect Sonic & Tails? Eggman's 1st scheme after SA2 was repairing the moon & using it to make himself look like the hero & Sonic the villain while it's unending total eclipse let him distribute brainwashing sunspheres. Sonic Heroes was aware of how SA2 ended things & chose to have Metal Sonic usurp him & serve as the villain the entire game because of that.

      As a kid I assumed that Eggman being Metal Sonic's prisoner motivated him to return to his evil ways. Eggman's big return as a villain was over'Shadow'ed by the Black Arms. I think what's important is that Eggman seems to be returning to the terrorist he felt like 20 years ago based on what we've seen in Sonic Forces. Unfortunately Sonic & Tails being out of character hurt the game's story. I mean it makes sense for Tails to have PTSD, although the game or its comics could have done a better job with that concept.

      I adopted a character yesterday, & think it may have been the motivation I need to return to my fanfics on here even without my creative partner. Still I'm going to miss Sonic News Network's discussions & some of the friends I used to have on Wikia while editing my fanfics here. Still it pains me to know how hated I am by some of the staff on SNN, Mystic. I'm hoping my block there isn't permanent.

      I'm still trying to get unbanned from Galaxy Trail's server for the joke I made well over a year ago (it may have been 2 years ago) it was "You should tell Lilac that Windows 10 is hurting Milla" & I was banned under the pretext that I was roleplaying. There wasn't even any real warning. Maybe it's just my fate to get banned & blocked from almost every community related to Wikia & Discord that I become part of for little reason?

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    • I think it's because Sonic Team had Dr. Eggman unconveirng some sort of eldritch horror or ancient god stowed away somewhere for plot conveniance and Eggman's image been soften to appeal more for the kiddies.

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    • Mystic out of curiosity what would your ideal Sonic Generations have been like? I know it's your favorite Modern game, although I'm sure you would have done it much differently if you were directing it. I'm wondering what it would have been like if you chose the stages, characters, & story for the game. I'm making a page on here for what I would have done.

      Anyway it's hard to believe we have 60 messages on here now. I'm getting involved elsewhere, although I'm really going to miss Sonic News Network the same way I do with all the other communities I was banned from. I know I'm always getting into these situations because I'm abnormal & some people will always hate me for that reason.

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    • I would of done two things...

      1. I would of allowed DLCs. These DLCs range from one or a few stages and more of a novelty than anything story base. These DLC-stages would be playable in White Space and make no impact or change to the games story other than being an additional stage to play through just for fun.

      2. For the N3DS version of the game, I would of selected stages from Game Gear (Classic-era), GameBoy Advance (Advance-era) and NDS (DS-era). If they're gonna have the modern gameplay from the NDS games as well as a DS-era then they might as well / should of gone with handheld games for the handheld version of SOnic Generations.

      That's about it.

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    • Your 3DS version seems epic & I'm completely with you on Generations should have had DLC other than a pinball minigame. Gamegear Era consists of 1,2,Chaos,Triple Trouble, & Blast, while Advance Era probably consists of Pocket Adventure & Advance Trilogy. 4kids Era Handheld games include the Rush & Rivals games. I'm curious what zones would have been chosen for the 3DS Version of the game though.

      Sunset Park, Music Plant, & Water Palace (which actually was in 3DS Generations) seem like the most obvious choices for each era. I'm curious as to how many Zones the 3DS was capable of supporting for Generations. The game itself only had 7, although I always felt the 3DS was capable of doing more than that. I know the Console Version probably had only 1/3rd of the content it could have had if you consider all that was possible on 1 GameCube disc. Wii could have handled a graphicly scaled down port of Sonic Generations ironicly enough.

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    • For the N3DS version of the game, I would of gone with these stages.

      Classic-era
      Green Hill
      Crystal Egg
      Gigalopolis

      Advance-era
      Angel Island
      Ice Paradise
      Toy Kingdom

      DS-era
      Water Palace
      Haunted Ship
      Tropical Resort

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    • I'm surprised by some of your level choices Mystic, as most consider Bridge Zone more iconic than Green Hill in 8-Bit Sonic 1. As well as that you could have given the Classic Era a 4th Zone because the actual 3DS Generations gave it 1 more zone than the other eras had. I always felt Advance Angel Island was 1 of the less remarkable ruin themed levels, always in the shadow of greats like Lost World & Sky Sanctuary, as well as Chaos Angel.

      I probably would have chosen Ice Mountain from Advance, Music Plant from Advance 2, & Ocean Base from Advance 3 for those 3 games. As for bosses the standout 8-Bit Bosses I can think of are AntLion & Silver Sonic from Sonic 2 (8-Bit), Metal Sonic & Nack from Triple Trouble, & The True Final Boss of Sonic Blast.

      Mecha Knuckles & Egg Snake from Advance, & Gizoid fights (Emerl in Battle & Gmerl in Adv3) really stand out from the Advance Era. As for DS Era a rival battle against Blaze would be awesome to have. Still I'm curious what bosses & rival fights you would have chosen, or what Triple Trouble Zone you would have chosen, Mystic.

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    • Green Hill is still iconic which is why I decided to leave it in... that and Green HIll, Water PAlace and Tropical Resort was already in the game.

      My choices is to keep themes different.Gagalopolis being city level, Angel ISland being ancient ruineds and Ice Palace... I can imagine with a snow resort theme given it's a snowy mountain infront of a city.

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    • Yeah the keeping themes different was the best thing about your choices. I was surprised that you chose Crystal Egg at 1st then realized oh yeah that's because it's the most recognizable zone in Sonic 2 (8-Bit) & part of me thought that Chaos Angel could have fit the Ancient Ruins theme, although I thought it didn't feel right to have a challenging endgame zone in the GBA Era.

      Still you never actually answered my questions about what Triple Trouble Zone you would have chosen or what bosses you would have chosen for the game to have Mystic.

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    • Oooh, I would of chosen either "vs Knuckles" in Tidal Plant or "vs Nack" in undisclosed areas that resemble the Special stages.

      For Advance-era boss battle I guess it be a fight against Emerl.

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    • It's been nearly a month since we last talked. The only toxicity I've actually felt over the past month was related to Pokemon & I'm sure you probably know why. It's unfortunate that Pokemon's UK based region turned out the way it did with GameFreak refusing to code half the species & several moves into the game pair. Several of the most hated pokemon ended up surviving the dex purge, while the region itself is just really disappointing.

      You have to agree that there's more to your country than True Football, Steampunk, Punkrock bands, & Kaiju right? I mean you have bands that aren't punk, you have plenty of good Science Fiction, Fantasy, & Horror Tele/novels/films. You have plenty of awesome legends as well, while Galar only has the box legends & Eternatus. The Legends of the Knights of the Round Table are famous all over the world & actually have a significant Japanese Fanbase. Also I get the feeling you'll agree that Dynamaxing has almost no relation to your culture.

      Anyway how have you been the past month Mystic? I'm curious as to your thoughts on things & I'm kind of disconnected from news about the Sonic Series these days. What returning zones would you want in Mania 2 or Mania 3? I'm not really able to answer because of how removed my mind is from the Sonic Series in order to survive being hated & banned.

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    • I haven't played the new Pokémon games but I am curious how other brits feel about it. I do think it's weird Pokémon gyms are depicted as football stadiums, I mean since when has that been a thing in pokémon? I figure gyms were like warehouse-size buildings with rocks, pools and other natual feng shui stuff.

      Will admit the new team villain is stupid but I find all villain teams went down hill after Rocket.

      As for SOnic Mania, I think Sonic Mania will be better off with a DLC of new zones than a sequal. How can you improove over a game as perfect as Sonic Mania? You'll be better off with a digital expansion like & Knuckles than a sequal. As for zones I'd simply likle brand new zones over rehashing old ones.

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    • My Top5 Zones in Mania Plus are 1:Chemical Plant, 2:Press Garden, 3:Flying Battery, 4:Hydrocity, 5:Mirage Saloon. I personally want to see a few zones get reinvented as well as Chemical Plant was with Mean Bean Machine & the bounce jello. Adding more playable characters like Amy & Honey, & having Fang's team play a role in the continued story of Mania Timeline would be ways a successor to Sonic Mania would happen.

      I personally want half the zones (at least 7 of 15) in Mania 2 to be returning with none of them featured in Mania Plus. Some zones that I feel deserve the Mania Treatment include Bridge Zone from Sonic 1, PalmTree Panic & Quartz Quadrant from CD, Aquatic Ruin, Mystic Cave, & Crystal Egg Zones from Sonic 2. As well as Gigalopolis Zone from Chaos, Sunset Park from Triple Trouble, IceCap, Mushroom Hill, & Sandopolis from 3K.

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    • If there will be a Sonic Mania 2, what kind of story should it have to set it different from the first game? And will the gameplay be any different than before? After all, Sonic 2 wasn't that different from Sonic 1 gameplay wise.

      This is why I think instead of a sequal, Sonic Mania Plus it should have an expansion instead. Just a new set of zones to run through and have a really basic "Eggman tries to conquer this island" plot than anything elaborate.

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    • I think trying to conquer an Island is kind of small scale for Eggman after building/repairing the Death Egg, trying to gain control over time to restore his Death Egg, & what we saw with the Titanic Monarch & Phantom Ruby in Mania. From what I understand the PR survived in the Mania Timeline, perhaps something could be done with that while Eggman's trying to repair & upgrade his Titanic Monarch? Maybe he could hire a certain Fan Favorite Troublemaking Team to take down Sonic & his friends or at the very least keep them busy throughout the game?

      Alternatively Fang/Nack could want the Phantom Ruby for himself after being hired by Eggman to get it back from Heavy King. There are plenty of possibilities for what happens next in Mania's Timeline & I don't see anything wrong with a story like Triple Trouble or 3K had in Mania's sequel game. Sonic Mania Plus was already an expansion for Sonic Mania wasn't it? Maybe 1 year from now if we're lucky we'll already have Mania 2 & the 30th Anniversary Project revealed?

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    • If we did get Sonic Mania 2, i'd be curious what they would bring to the table to outshine the prequal. But if it turns out both games will be similar in graphics and function i'd say "why bother?"

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    • Mystic it's been almost a month since we last talked & about 10 weeks since I was blocked from SNN. Do you think my exile is permanent or is there the chance I'll be able to return to Sonic News Network someday? Also I'm curious as to what you want from 3D Sonic in the future? It's well known that the series has been in a dark age since Generations with Mania representing the light of hope to many fans.

      There are rumors that Sonic Team are completely divided on the fate of the series with Iizuka wanting a return to Sonic's platforming roots in the 3D games. I kind of want a return to the Adventure way of doing things, although it's hard to know which Sega wants what for the series. I want to get back to DeCool's good graces somehow, so I can be part of the Sonic News Network community again. I want to be part of these discussions again.

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    • I've actually written out blogs on my thoughts on what Sonic Team could do with the Sonic Adventure games.

      As for being let back in, you should ask the other admins about that.

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    • The only admins I know of are you, DeCool, & Myself, & you're the only of those 3 I can really contact easily. I'll have to read your blogs at some point Mystic. I'm sure you guys are having fun on Christmas Island with high hopes for Sonic's return to prosperity in the 2020s. I'm personally hoping that the 2010s are forever known as the worst decade for the Sonic Series, as that would mean the series is doing well in the future.

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    • It's an island that is a winter wonderland and celebrates Christmas 24/7!

      The The 20'10. Sonic Colours, Generations, Lost World and so on. Sure some stinkers like Sonic Free Riders and Sonic 4 but not all bad.

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    • Free Riders & Sonic 4 are why I'm of the opinion that The Dark Age after Generations actually started with those 2 games with a few exceptional games like Generations & Sonic Mania existing. 2010s Sonic has been those games you mentioned, Sonic Boom, Sonic Forces, & Team Sonic Racing not counting crossovers & mobile phone games.

      I agree that even if it has been the worst decade for Sonic there was still quite a bit of good to be found in it if you know where to look. We got some good comics, Boom managed to spawn the best Sonic Comedy Series. Also like 06 we can still find good even in the games that were considered bad, so if this does end up as Sonic's worst decade that would be a blessing for the series moving forward.

      I'm trying to be the best user I can on this wiki & have also been working on my fanfics lately. Still I kind of worry that if I get too involved in 1 community I'll only end up making everyone hate me as that is usually what happens. I'm too prone to making mistakes, & I looked into 1 of your blogs on here & ironically had the same thoughts about the article standards here back in autumn 2014 that you did. For some time I've gotten the feeling we are a lot alike even though we have a few key differences here & there, Mystic.

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    • It's been a couple months since we last talked Mystic. I'm still trying to come to terms with why I'm hated so much & it's frustrating being blocked from Sonic News Network yet still getting all these emails from that site about updates. Mystic do you think DeCool & Myself will ever stop hating me? I remember getting banned from the Discord on the day of Nintendo E3 2019 & it's been over 4 months since I was blocked from the entire site.

      I've been told I'm not good enough to exist for the past 9 years on various wikis & discord. Why is it that some of us face endless abuse for the crime of existing as we are in this world? That the corrupt are allowed to reign & twist existence for all with their wealth & influence? I have come to accept that this is the 21st Century & only the victorious are allowed to have opinions in this era. Those who go against this opinion are to be subject to abuse & I want to be on the winning side, although don't know how to join it.

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    • I dunno, Myself 123 has a user page here on Sonic Fanon Wiki, why not take it up with him?

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    • I probably will, I don't even remember why DeCool banned me from Sonic News Network's Discord Server. I got blocked from the wiki itself because of that dumb Poll I made in response to another poll. I really should have gone through the trouble of trying to find that Sonic Adventure 2 "?" image on Youtube, screenshotting it, then taking it & making it the ideal size for the Other Category. I needed a poll image for the other option or all 5 images I gathered wouldn't have been able to be used for the poll & in my haste decided to use a Cream pic. I really should have thought about what I was using Cream's image for harder before I hit Submit.

      Remember how 1 year ago we were talking about "Into the SonicVerse" as a what if based on the Spiderverse Movie, of course that's because I looked at some old fanfic files I had on my computer after someone asked me about the idea of a Sonicverse like Into the Spiderverse did. There were also Ultimate Sega Universe fanfic concepts that I hadn't read since the day I was banned. I also fear I may have become a Classicist.

      I saw this really good fan techdemo for future Adventure Games called Sonic Adventure Chronicles. Part of me hopes we see a return to form for 3D Sonic soon & if an Adventure Team of fans is needed I think the makers of Sonic Adventure Chronicles should be hired. I even suggest an Adventure Style Game trying to appeal to Sega of Japan & offering to have the game appeal to Japanese audiences in exchange for the Mania Treatment with a few additional favors. Ability to use certain abandoned characters, have Sonic keep his SA2 Shoes, & ability to take a few things from Sonic X would be nice examples for those favors. Although that's probably too good to truly ever happen.

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    • I've seen demos of Chronicles. it does look good.

      (Sorry I can't make big reply. Day 3 of my head cold.)

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    • I researched the decisions of Sega of America vs Sega of Japan & SoJ was calling the shots for the best games in the series. SoA is the reason the past 10 years have been the way they were for the Sonic Series. Sega of Japan didn't like the 2010s direction for Sonic in terms of story & characterization & didn't want to support it with funding. Since they are the more successful branch of Sega & are in favor of the stories & characterization that existed in the 2000s, it makes the most sense to appeal to SoJ for the games that Adventure Fans want in the series.

      Hopefully your head feels better soon Mystic. I should get some sleep now & plan on trying to get into the Sonic Adventure Chronicles community to see if I can be part of what makes the Sonic Mania for Adventure Fans happen.

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    • Aah, I remember this piece of Sega history. SoA were mostly dunning and importing SoJ games at the time but Sega became more internaitonal around Dreamcast-era for the sake of Sonic Adventure.

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    • Happy St Patrick's Day Mystic, how have things been the past few weeks in the British Isles. Corona Virus has been a problem here in The States lately, are you dealing with it where you are? I talked to Myself like you suggested, & he wasn't even aware of my being blocked. Your homeland generated a lot of awesome stuff over the past 2 Millennia with tons of great writers, musicians, & actors coming from the UK.

      Best of luck with staying well Mystic, I'm hoping Sega still reveals Sonic plans even if South by Southwest gets cancelled because of this plague. The Adventure games feel more Classic than Modern these days & I wonder if we'll ever get more games like them in the Sonic Series someday. I haven't really been successful at reaching the Sonic Adventure Chronicles community. These are hard times to live in my friend.

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    • As mentioned I had a cold roughly when coronavirus arrived at our shores but I think it was no more than a cold. I still have a bit of a cough but other than that I am fine.

      WaterKirby1994 wrote:
      Your homeland generated a lot of awesome stuff over the past 2 Millennia with tons of great writers, musicians, & actors coming from the UK.

      2 millenia is 2000 years so that's pretty much all of recorded history. I could say the same for America and most other countries by that period. Yeah the Coronavirus is cancelling a lot of things and causing quite a scare amongst people, such as panic-shoppers buying up tissues and governments planning on lockdowns. Borris Johnshon however says lockdown will have continued schools and no pay on sickleave while other countries are pausing their economy for lockdowns so that's stupid. Still I won't say if brexit was good or not until I see more results. I hope we get either Sonic Adventure remakes or Sonic Adventure 3 soon. Classic-era fans get Sonic Mania, when will Dreamcast-era fans get something? Still waiting for it. But some rumours say that the next major Sonic game will have Dreamcast-Modern hybrid gameplay but those are just rumours. As for SXSW and E3 being cancelled, well major gaming companies could still promote their games online, such as YouTube or downloadable demos.

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    • The States burned all history of this land from prior to 400 years ago, & we only really had a few creative souls in this massive country like Stan Lee, Steven Spielburg, & a few others. We don't have anything like the Legends of the Knights of the Round Table or Beowulf which is why we need to search for stuff from other lands. I could go further on this lack of national identity we have in The USA with our legends being outlaws. We can only hope things work out in both our nations & Corona Virus is eliminated quickly. It bothers me that a convention in July was already outright cancelled because of this thing.

      I agree with you when it comes to Dreamcast-era fans & Sega seems to be trying to appeal to us some, while not understanding how. Team Sonic Racing was made to appeal to fans of Sonic Heroes, although was really underwhelming do to the lack of characters playable & only Teams Sonic & Dark remain fully intact. Sonic Forces tried to lure in Dreamcast Era fans by having Chaos, Shadow, & Metal Sonic appear alongside Infinite in the trailer & by having Episode Shadow & the ability to play as the black hedgehog again at long last. Unfortunately the game was obviously rushed without anywhere near the budget it deserved because of the entire Sega of Japan vs Sega of America issue.

      I think the 1st thing I do if I ever get unbanned from Sonic News Network will be making a blog or discussion to explain the entire situation with Sonic. Although unfortunately people are going to want sources which don't exist. I also want Mania 2 to happen & am hoping that the long wait is worth it with at least 7 Characters Playable (Amy & Honey) & at least 15 Zones. Half ideally being Mania Exclusives & half being reimagined Classics that weren't in Mania Plus. Just imagine 8-Bit Zones getting used like Sunset Park, & I'm sure you have hopes for a 2nd Sonic Mania, Mystic. I'm hoping for something almost on the scale of Sonic Adventure in 2D.

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    • Beowulf was scandinadian. But yeah the legends of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table are the only thing I;m patriotic about these days. The government is kinda naff. Or maybe patriotism is to love your culture over your politics? I mean Borris Johnson wants all of Britain to go on a two-week long sick leave with no pay.

      I didn't know TSR was trying to appeal to Sonic Heroes fans, I figure it was trying to appeal to racing fans, because I didn't see the appeal that much. Still it be nice if with Dreamcast-era fans had our own Mania game by now, though knowing Sega it'll probably be somewhat linear like Sonic Heroes or Shadow's game than as open as the original Adventure games were.

      really can't imagine "Sonic Mania 2" ever happening. If it did it would perhaps be an expansion to the original Sonic Mania. In the 90s releasing a game that looks the same as the prequel was acceptable, such as Sonic 2 being almost the same as Sonic 1 in apperance. But it added Tails, Spin Dash and new zones to make it new. If "Sonic Mania 2" was just new zones it would just make me ask "Why copy-paste Sonic Mania to sell as a seperate game when they could of just expand it from Sonic Mania?" Still if Sega going to stick with his whole "Mania timeline" excuse they better do more with it than just the one and a half game.

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    • I agree with much of what you're saying Mystic, except for Mania 2. I think of this as being like Megaman 9 & 10 from about 10 years ago. I expect some significant changes like new Special Stages, a completely different list of zones with a new story, & at least 2 more playable characters beyond the 5 we currently have. 1 could make similar arguments about 3D Sonic games these days such as giving Forces more DLC instead of ever having another 3D Boost game.

      I think as long as there is enough completely different content to justify another $30 game, then Mania 2 should exist. I have fears that if Sonic Adventure were remade for 2021 release it would be inferior to the original game. Sega of America hasn't known who the characters were supposed to be for the past decade, if they did they wouldn't have gone through with the entire 2010s direction of the series. This time next year we'll know what to expect probably.

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    • I have hope that if there will ever be Sonic adventure remakes it'll be just as good, maybe better than the originals. Just youTube "Sonic fan games" and see all the fan games that emulate open world gameplay for Sonic. If the fans can do it theres no way Sonic Team can mess up such a simple concept that most fans can do. I still think that if Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were remade they should be released as a single compilation, and maybe "Sonic Adventure 3" recycled from said compilation.

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    • Mystic, I asked Myself to contact DeCool. I lived with being blocked from Sonic News Network for the past 10 months even though the reasoning was sketchy. I always knew that DeCool's real reason for blocking me was personal, yet I accepted it because there wasn't really anything I could do to protest it. I thought if I waited a few months for things to cool off, the admins would be more willing to allow me to return. I think it's about time my exile ended, any help you can offer would be appreciated.

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    • Hi, Mystic Monkey! Why am I surprised to see a lot of SNN folks here?

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    • WaterKirby1994 wrote:
      Mystic, I asked Myself to contact DeCool. I lived with being blocked from Sonic News Network for the past 10 months even though the reasoning was sketchy. I always knew that DeCool's real reason for blocking me was personal, yet I accepted it because there wasn't really anything I could do to protest it. I thought if I waited a few months for things to cool off, the admins would be more willing to allow me to return. I think it's about time my exile ended, any help you can offer would be appreciated.

      I dunno if theres any much I can do on my end but I hope it gets resolved soon.

      DarkraiShadowXZ wrote: Hi, Mystic Monkey! Why am I surprised to see a lot of SNN folks here?

      I'm pretty sure Sonic Fanon Wiki has most SNN users and then some.

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    • A FANDOM user
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