Board Thread:Wiki Improvement/@comment-3002957-20150330222252/@comment-3002957-20150414134419

Frost the Wolf wrote: Okay, soooooooooo, something interesting happened on chat: 
 * RabbidSquirrelz Because if the chat closes, some people will just leave and that could mean even less activity D:
 * 12:02 RavenDarsh The chat is finally closing?
 * I seriously don't know which genius thought that one up.
 * I'm being sarcastic by the way.
 * It won't do anything.
 * 12:03 Frost the Wolf It hasn't been decided yet. It's only being discussed.
 * 12:03 RavenDarsh People will resent the fact there would be almost "forced" activity.
 * 12:03 RabbidSquirrelz ^^^
 * 12:03 Frost the Wolf I can see the logic in his idea, however.
 * Fireblaze Inferno has entered the current zone.
 * 12:04 Awkwarddingo I think they should at least strongly recommend editing here
 * 12:04 RabbidSquirrelz Heck, encouraging chat activity could help because people could discuss characters and pages
 * 12:04 RavenDarsh Uh, no.
 * 12:04 Awkwarddingo just saying "hey, there's this site here...just so you know"
 * 12:04 RabbidSquirrelz We just need to have more discussions about characters I think :D
 * Like say, sharing ideas
 * 12:05 Frost the Wolf Raven, something needs to be done to help improve activity on the main space. Have you any ideas?
 * 12:05 RabbidSquirrelz Or giving advice
 * 12:05 RavenDarsh Yeah, actually, I do.
 * 12:05 Frost the Wolf ^that might help somewhat, Rabbid.
 * Great, let's hear it, Raven.
 * 12:05 Awkwarddingo is it getting off of our lazy butts and typing stuff?
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:05 RavenDarsh There's that.
 * But think further than that.
 * Fireblaze Inferno has sped off to the next zone!
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:05 Awkwarddingo achievements?
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:05 RavenDarsh There are bad articles we can all agree with that, right?
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:05 RabbidSquirrelz Yes
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:06 Awkwarddingo of course
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:06 Frost the Wolf Getting rid of people who continually degrade another user and make them feel like they can't do anything right?
 * .w.
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:06 RabbidSquirrelz Is it up the quality because I'm all for it
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:06 RavenDarsh You're close, Frost.
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:06 Awkwarddingo we need to encourage activity and not force it?
 * kind of like the difference between grounding a child for being lazy and rewarding them for doing chores
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:07 Frost the Wolf Reducing policies? (Please tell me that's not right...)
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:07 RavenDarsh The standards here are too critical. And for all the right reasons. That's the problem. People don't want to try because most writers are afraid of being chastised, not criticized. There's a difference between criticism and being degraded. Encouragement is a good stepping, forcing is not.
 * Criticism is great. Chastisement is not.
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:07 Frost the Wolf Hmm. Which standards would you recommend dropping or lowering?
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:07 RavenDarsh Can you recall the last time someone made a horrible character and anyone here took them seriously?
 * It's not really the policies or standards, it's the mindset.
 * SFW is a total hive mind to the mentality that anyone who makes a sloppy article or weak point is a complete idiot.
 * Some people legitimately struggle with their characters and are called out as lazy and unwilling to change. There are cases like the ones I just named, I won't name names, but we all know someone.
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:08 Awkwarddingo Rhysabeth. You should make a blog or something saying everything you said here
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:08 Frost the Wolf ^^^^^
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:08 RavenDarsh But for 90% of people, they're afraid to participate, it's not that they don't want to.
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:09 Frost the Wolf EXACTLY what I was going to say, Dingo
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:09 RavenDarsh What, you agree?
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:09 Awkwarddingo hell yeah
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:09 RavenDarsh What the hell am I even making these points for?
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:09 FroZenHyBrid
 * petting Dingu*
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:09 Frost the Wolf With you? Yeah.
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:09 Awkwarddingo getting people to do stuff
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:09 Frost the Wolf Because the rest of the wiki probably doesn't know that.
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:10 RavenDarsh 'kay, but what exactly am I saying all this for?
 * Like what's the endgoal?
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:10 Awkwarddingo more activity on the main site
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:10 RavenDarsh People aren't going to listen if they feel like it's a forced messages.
 * . . Alright.
 * I accept your challenge, I'll write a blog arguing my points and ideas.
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:11 Awkwarddingo awesome. I'll give you a potato cake for your efforts
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:11 RabbidSquirrelz Also character creation discussion should totally pop up more here
 * :D
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:12 RavenDarsh I noticed that RP tends to take the chat's attention more than anything else.
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:12 Frost the Wolf True. I'd normally make edits and expand my characters, but my self-esteem's been shot to the ground and pretty much shattered. However, not by the standards or critique here.
 * <span class="time" style="color:rgb(156,156,156);float:right;font-size:12px;">12:12 RavenDarsh Yeah, it's by the mentality.
 * We're a hive mind.
 * We basically tell ourselves that our work is crap.

<p class="continued" data-user="RavenDarsh" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:-15px;padding-right:15px;padding-bottom:16px;padding-left:55px;min-height:0px;position:relative;top:-15px;">

<p class="continued" data-user="RavenDarsh" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:-15px;padding-right:15px;padding-bottom:16px;padding-left:55px;min-height:0px;position:relative;top:-15px;">______________________________________________________

<p class="continued" data-user="RavenDarsh" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:-15px;padding-right:15px;padding-bottom:16px;padding-left:55px;min-height:0px;position:relative;top:-15px;">

<p class="continued" data-user="RavenDarsh" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:-15px;padding-right:15px;padding-bottom:16px;padding-left:55px;min-height:0px;position:relative;top:-15px;">I think Raven might be on to something here. Closing or restricting the chat, a main attraction of our wiki, wouldn't encourage activity, but would rather be more likely to drive AWAY potential and existing occupants. While our goals of having standards met are all well and good, to many times it's driven away potential users from making edits because they're AFRAID of being chastised. The idea of getting rid of chat to force more activity time on the main wiki is likely to backfire by driving people away. We need to ENCOURAGE editing, not ENFORCE it. Use a carrot instead of a stick, so to speak.

<p class="continued" data-user="RavenDarsh" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:-15px;padding-right:15px;padding-bottom:16px;padding-left:55px;min-height:0px;position:relative;top:-15px;">

<p class="continued" data-user="RavenDarsh" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:-15px;padding-right:15px;padding-bottom:16px;padding-left:55px;min-height:0px;position:relative;top:-15px;">I asked Raven to explain his/her idea in greater detail. I ask that you all please listen and be open to discussion. Sometimes it's the person peering in from outside that has the best insight on the situation.

Great job and even better job at listening to the people. Once I have the time, I will read the points on what people want. But I will say this,

"The main attraction being the chat?" Really now? That does not sound good to me in the least bit. The main attraction is supposed to be the site, not the chat. Again, socializing is grand and all. But putting priority into the chat and having it being a driving force of the wiki is not.. good..

Allow me to be frank and enlighten all of you on how things worked in the olden times of the wiki (God I sound old. XP) We didn't have a chat, we didn't have a notion that we NEED to get on the chat. No we had talk pages for that, we didn't care that others could see, hell we wanted others to see and become inspired by what we were writing. I met all my best friends this way and grew closer with them and their characters in this manner because we were an OPEN community that didn't hide in PC to have our personal roleplays.

Now, don't consider me anti-chat. It has it's merits, it really does. But the moment it becomes a driving force of the wiki and really the only place people go to. That right there is where we have the problem. The chat should be an extension of the site and not it's key focal point. It should not detract from the mainspace but add to it. I've been to countless other Fanon's in other guises and heck they have 20+ members in chat. Yet all of them were editing the mainspace AND socializing.

Stigmatism aside which I completely agree with (and we need to work on this.) I am becoming increasingly unnerved with the almost vice like need to have a chat or go bust. Their are so many other forms of having conversation and if it is in the open side, so be it. What are you afraid of hiding? Explicit stuff? If that is the case, go do that stuff on DA simple as that.

I am going to be frank, this wiki is dying. We have members, but it is dying due to the fact that no one wants to edit and no amount of coloring such as "I am afraid to edit, I don't want my things to be seen in the open and etc" will change that unless we do something. This was and is supposed to be a community, but for some reason everyone is choosing to hide behind closed doors. That is not going to end well for this wiki and you are all seeing it's results in the main space. Just food for thought.